In last week's edition of "Wednesday's Challenge" it was a battle of Celtics legends with DJ, Dennis Johnson, earning 65% of the vote and beating "Easy Ed" Macauley to move up 4 spots to #41 on the RBSF Ladder. This week we have a battle of Red Sox greats as Jim Rice (#39) attempts to hold off the challenge of Bobby Doerr (#46). A look at the two candidates...
RICE: Played entire 16-year career (1974-89) with the Red Sox, retiring with a .298 average, 382 home runs and 1,451 runs batted in. Was 1978 A.L. MVP when he hit .315 with 46 HR and 139 RBI. His 406 total bases in '78 are still a franchise record. Finished top-5 of MVP voting 6 times. Selected to 8 All Star teams. Member of A.L. Champions in 1975 & 1986. Led league in total bases 4x, home runs 3x, runs batted in 2x, slugging % 2x, as well as hits, triples and OPS once each. Was top-10 in average 6x, home runs 7x and RBI 9x. Top-10 on Sox all-time lists in Hits (3rd), Home Runs (3rd), RBI (3rd), Total Bases (3rd), Runs (4th), Doubles (6th), Triples (6th) and Slugging % (8th).
DOERR: Played entire 14-year career (1937-44, 45-51) with the Red Sox, retiring with a .288 average, 223 home runs and 1,247 runs batted in. Selected to 9 All Star teams. Considered the premier defensive 2nd baseman of his generation, and had a .980 career fielding percentage. Helped lead the Red Sox to the 1946 A.L. pennant. In the World Series that year he was the Sox best hitter going 9-22 (.409) with a home run. Led league in slugging % in '44, and only 1 2nd basemen in the majors has done so since. Top-10 on Sox all-time lists in Triples (4th), Runs (5th), Total Bases (5th), Doubles (5th), RBI (5th), Hits (6th) and Home Runs (7th). Elected to Baseball Hall of Fame in 1986. His #1 hsa been retired by the Red Sox.
VERDICT: This is truly a coin flip and it depends which argument you choose to take. Who was better offensively? Defensively? Clutch? Ranks higher on their teams? In their era? At their position? I have chosen the final option, and since I believe Bobby Doerr ranks significantly higher among all-time 2nd basemen than Jim Rice ranks among all-time left fielders, I am giving him a slight advantage and my vote. If Jim Ed heads to Cooperstown next time around however, I may have to reconsider this one.
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8 comments:
In the interest of full disclosure I must admit that I think I lean toward the older players (Doerr, Ed Macauley) because I do think they get overlooked and underappreciated and I'm doing my best to make sure that doesn't happen. That said, Doerr still deserves the nod in this one.
DK, you'd flip flop your vote based on the Baseball Writers of America? Wow! You sure are steadfast in your beliefs John Kerry Jr.(I am not sure if the sarcasm is coming across here). How does the voting of a bunch of writer divas effect(affect?) what these two men accomplished on the field? It doesn't. You may want to edit your post before more people see how easily swayed you are by people you don't even know.
Do you base your musical tastes on Grammy awards or Rock n Roll HOF inductions?
Do you base your movie choices on Hollywood Walk of Fames squares?
Wait, you are one of those people who base their political votes on the endorsement of "famous" people.
Did you vote for Dennis Kucinich in the primaries because Paris Hilton told you to?
By the way, I am voting for Rice because his name is easier to pronounce than Doerr. It is like Brett Favre's name.
Do-er?
Door-er?
Door?
Door-er-r?
I was having this conversation with Anonymous one day when Polobear overheard us and chimed in, "Dewars? Make mine a double good man."
Walpole Jones,
I know it is difficult for those not proficient in the English language to say Doerr - but think of it in these terms.
It is pronounced like "door".
As in - every house has a door and windows except Walpole Jone's because he lives in an old refrigerator box.
Or try this one - Walpole Joe was shown the door the night of his bachelor party after consuming too much Wild Turkey.
Anyway - I vote for Jim Ed. Dominant player of his era from a slugging and RBI perspective. Played the wall very well and would be ranked higher on the all time OF list if not for steroid era.
On the Baseball page
http://www.thebaseballpage.com/positions/rankings/LF.php
- the rankings of all time LF's puts Rice at #19 and at 2nd base, Doerr is also #19.
Since I remember Jim Rice - he gets my vote to break the tie.
I'm gonna have to go Rice similar numbers both lifetime Sox, bot equally great at their position. Again going go with what i know and i saw Rice play and i think playing the monster is a harder job than 2nd. I guess the only way i wont show any age bias is if both guys played before my time.
Jim Rice was the king of the double play and the phoney statistics. He was the guy that would hit the HR or pick up 5 RBI in a game that the Sox were either up or down by a wide margin.
I'll take the guy who's number is retired over right field - Bobby Doerr!
And where's my Dewars, Spider?
WJ, When something is very close you need to find tie-breakers...being a Hall of Famer is one of them. If you don't consider other people's opinion at all you can throw every award out the windown, including Rice's MVP in '78 (Yanks fans still think Guidry got robbed). And All Star selections are also personal opinions of others, so I guess that's out too.
You are dealing with different types of players from different eras here, and thus everything on their resume helps make a decision. For example, I think Doerr gets a bonus point (or two) in my book for his military service. He led the league in slugging in '44, missed the entire '45 season to serve in WWII, and came back to finish 3rd in the MVP voting in '46.
I still don't see how does what those people think change what he did on the field?
Military service is completely different. It is not a group of people saying "we finally think Jim Rice is great enough for us even tough he hasn't been great enough for the last 10 years and nothing has changed" and DK saying(insert Brian Regan dumb guy voice) "oh yeah, now I see. You are right he is greater than I thought. What he did on the field before wasn't good enough to be better than Doerr, but now that his ugly mug is immortalized in bronze I completely think he is better. Thank you Steve Buckley for showing me the errors of my ways."
You have not swayed me one bit on how being in the Hall of Fame makes him a better player or more important on the RBSF Top 100.
Missing seasons in his prime is a million times more important than a HOF plaque. So you have changed my mind on who I am voting for, but not with your opinions, with facts.
Friend of Joe W. (AA refernce) brings up an excellent point about Jim Ed and the double play rally killer. I can remember wishing for a strikeout when he was up just so the next guy could have a shot continuing the inning. Whenever I hear that a guy strikes out a lot my first thought is "hey, it's better than the Jim Rice rally killing DP."
Vote Bobby Drawer!
Should this Challenge be re-played since the polls aren't working?
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